Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: 14 May 1996 12:18:01 GMT Organization: 3Com Switching R&D Lines: 39 I've had severe disagreements with some bandmates over the years about volume, but my feeling is that for rehearsals, small amps and low volumes are the best. You should not have to use a monster PA just to hear the vocals. Some people might find this crazy, but one band I was in used to rehearse in a tiny kitchen. One 10 watt amp that both the bass (me) and guitar plugged into, the drummer used a suitcase (!!) for a kick drum, threw a towel over the snare and had only his hi-hat. The other instruments (violin and accordion) played acoustically. Live this was a LOUD band (we played zydeco, a blues-based style from Louisiana) with the fiddle and accordion fully amplified. But in the kitchen there was no room for amps, PA. etc. so we played quietly and just sang with no amplification. It worked well because the focus of rehearsals was nailing down arrangements and vocals; at the low volume it was easy to hear everything clearly. OK, that might be too extreme for the average rock band, but if the band comes in with low volume in mind, usign small combo amps and getting the drummer to lighten up a bit (smaller kit, lighter sticks), it would a be a good idea. A buddy of mine once complained that his rig, 800 watts into a pair of 15" EV cabs was not loud enough for rehearsals!!! Musicians who say they need full blast volume to get the "feel" of being onstage are being selfish and pigheaded. It's bad enough to play on STAGE at levels needing earplugs to protect your hearing, why rehearse that way? IF YOU NEED EARPLUGS IT IS TOO LOUD. -- Brian Rost 3Com Corp. 508-264-1550 Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:29:52 -0400 Organization: Falafel Boy [snip] > OK, that might be too extreme for the average rock band, but if the band [snip] You know, that works for the average loud rock band. I'm in a REALLY loud rock band, and for rehearsals, we play twice a week with the drummer using a cardboard box for a bass drum, towels on the snare, cymbals and toms, and multi-rods instead of sticks. The guitarist and I play through 10 wat amps each. The vocals are unamplified. This allows us to work on our vocals a lot better than playing loud, and we all sing, with a lot of harmony things going on, so that is important. Once a week we rehearse at full volume, as it really helps us work out our instrumental parts. We rehearse with a PA and earplugs. It's worth it though, as this is where the drummer can do his most creative work, and he is a very creative drummer. Also, it gives us a better idea of what we're sounding like live, and we can review the tapes and better adjust songs as we're developing them. rob Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: 15 May 1996 19:54:30 -0700 Organization: ICSI/U.C. Berkeley > practice, so I started to wear earplugs. I still have the > tinnitus but it's not getting any worse so I'm not worried about > it. What worries me more is the other people in the band. Only > the singer wears plugs, the drummer and guitarist who you'd > expect to be at most risk don't wear them at all. The guitarist > insists that he doesn't have any tinnitus, which I don't > understand. Is it that some people aren't affected, or just that > they don't notice it creeping up on them? Both. Many people have tinnitus but don't realize they have it. Some people have had it for such a long time that they have forgotten what the sound of silence sounds like, so even in a quiet environment, they'll say they don't hear ringing. In some cases, such people will eventually start hearing their ringing, especially if they listen carefully. On the other hand, other people seem genuinely immune to tinnitus. They might have hearning loss but no accompanying ringing. Regardless of tinnitus, the best thing to do if you often expose yourself to loud sounds is to go to an audiologist and get an audiogram (i.e., hearing test) once a year or so. That way, you'll be able to moniter your hearing ability and track the direction it is going. One interesting fact is the following. We always associate hearing loss with old age. In fact, certain isolated societies of people (i.e., people not exposed to modern machinery of any kind) do not get an increased hearing loss as they age. Yes, it might be an particular genetic trait of these people, but that's unlikely. -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Jeff A. Bilmes Computer Science Division International Computer Science Institute Dept. of EECS 1947 Center St. Suite 600 U.C. Berkeley Berkeley CA, 94704-1198 Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: 15 May 1996 20:03:32 -0700 Organization: ICSI/U.C. Berkeley > One thing that makes practice louder than it should be is lack > of sound absorption. All those frequencies bouncing around on > all those hard surfaces makes for sound soup. Yes, but in general the lower frequencies (the ones us bass players create) are not absorbed very well unless you have some very massive material. Also, earplugs have a harder time shielding lower frequencies than higher ones. And yes, you can get high-frequency tinnitus ringing from low frequency tones. > I have been in "basement" bands for 16 years now. I can't > believe what I put up with before finding sound foam. If you're > not convinced try hanging carpet or sleeping bags up in your > practice space. They help. I spent $300 and covered about 90% in > 4" foam from USAfoam and it is excellent I can hear > everything. I too have mild tinnitus. Anybody using those custom > plugs I have heard about where they customize them to your ear > canal? I'm gonna get some if I hear (no pun intended) good stuff > about them. I have a pair and I like them. For the really loud gigs, (i.e., roughly, anything that has peaks over +120dB SPL C weighted), I use bell shaped foam plugs that attenuate even more then but not as flatly as the musicians' custom ones. > John Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Organization: Storage Technology Corporation | IF YOU NEED EARPLUGS IT IS TOO LOUD. I agree with this...if only I had done that when I was younger...what I wouldn't give to have my left ear at 100% again... Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: 15 May 1996 22:38:48 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services We found a couple of ways of dealing with this, one of which was going ampless the drummer used a drum machine and the rest of us went direct into the board, Then fed the signal out through the headphone jack in the board{we split the signal4 ways} We could here each other and have complete control over the sound level. Another way is going acustic, let the drummer play his drums, { he would have to keep a low level} this also lets you work on dynamics Karl Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: 15 May 1996 19:35:47 GMT Organization: InternetMCI One thing that makes practice louder than it should be is lack of sound absorption. All those frequencies bouncing around on all those hard surfaces makes for sound soup. I have been in "basement" bands for 16 years now. I can't believe what I put up with before finding sound foam. If you're not convinced try hanging carpet or sleeping bags up in your practice space. They help. I spent $300 and covered about 90% in 4" foam from USAfoam and it is excellent I can hear everything. I too have mild tinnitus. Anybody using those custom plugs I have heard about where they customize them to your ear canal? I'm gonna get some if I hear (no pun intended) good stuff about them. John Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: How loud is too loud? Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:18:14 LOCAL Organization: COMCAT Inc. >Subject: How loud is too loud? >Date: 6 May 1996 12:10:20 GMT > >At my band's last rehearsal, I took along an SPL meter to find out just how >loud we were playing. It ranged from about 102 decibels to about 116, >generally around 112. > >I'm concerned that this is loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss. I >tried wearing ear plugs, but took them out after about thirty seconds >because I couldn't hear the guitar at all. > >How loud is too loud? Are there better ear plugs that have a more even >frequency response? The level we were playing at was loud enough that my >ears were ringing, an hour later. We'd also played the night before, at a >similar level, which also made my ears ring. I'm soooo glad you brought this up. One of the bands I'm in ( the one where I sink all my money into cabs) pumps out between 110 and 120 dB. At first I wouldn't even think of plugs or headphones because I needed to hear EVERYTHING. After a practice or two my ears would continue to ring - all the way up to the next practice. This is not good. Next thing I know, I've grown SUPER sensitive to hard edged guitar sound or feedback (around 2 or 3 k). Damage had been done. Now, my quietest moments are filled with that ringing ear tinnitis (sp?) A doctors opinion of course was that I'd be fucked with continued high dB exposure. Once your hearing goes... IT FUCKING GOES!!!! As far as my band goes, we all look at each other and say that nobody should be playing that loud. Then we plug in and blast away. I have the last laugh. I've gotten used to wearing these plugs that fit IN your ear with some metal baffling that cuts 30 or 40 dB. These work well because they just cut the volume without killing any sound. I've given up trying to convince these guys about volume. Best of luck to you chris PS One good blast of feedback catching me plugless can temporarily wipe out my ability to hear correctly certain ranges and frequencies. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- a post episodic clairvoyant from the grim world Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: Ear Protection Date: 5 Jul 1996 18:06:40 GMT Organization: Cows Unlimited! : Hi, : Do the rock players on this newsgroup use ear protection? If so, have you : found anything better than the little foam plugs? I find that they really : distort the sound, and they can get uncomfortable. I'm thinking of buying : headphone style ear protection that they sell in hardware stores. Has : anyone tried this? I've got a set that my eyes/ears/throat doctor fitted me for. They were about $100, but they've lasted several years... and they are acoustically transparent--except they reduce the volume a lot. I've found it easier, however, just to convince the band to TURN DOWN whether in rehearsal or on stage. -- --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Barry J. Bocaner _________/| _|__________)- "If you listen to a piece of classical music it's a piece of music, but if you listen to a pop song from 1954 it sounds like a pop song from 1954. How much of the music that's being written today will be worth listening to in ten years, except for nostalgia?" -Geddy Lee -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass Subject: Re: Ear Protection Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 10:11:26 -0800 Organization: Seaberg Audio Services I'm a firm believer in hearing protection. I've been in the recording bu= siness since 1971 = and have played in club bands equally that long. With the drummer always= being to my = right, I now have a major deficiency in my right ear!! The protectors I use can be picked up at any sporting goods store that se= lls hunting = equipment, i.e. rifles and stuff. You can get the foam ones, but the one= s that work best = AS A MUSICIAN have diaphrams in them that attenuate higher frequencies th= at can cause = more damage, and let the lower frequencies pass through. This still allo= ws you to hear = the bass and impact of the drums without losing a lot of feeling. -- = Eric Seaberg =80 Seaberg Audio Services