Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Date: 12 Oct 1995 23:52:42 GMT Organization: Soup To Nuts Music I recently began a job where I virtually type 40 hours a week. For the first time in all of my playing years, I began experiencing finger soreness and pain. What I did was to go see my chiropractor and after an adjustment and following his exercise regim (i.e. stretching at work), my pain, for the most part, has dissappeared. Good Luck! Craig Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip > >Since one evening about six months ago when I played the guitar >for hours, the fingertip of my left hand (I am right handed) >middle finger started hurting. . . > >Initially, the pain was strong enough to give me jolts when I >typed on a computer keyboard. Later, especially after I peeled >off the callus of that finger, the pain has improved into a >ever present dull annoyance that gets better and worse >depending on its use. > . . > >The dull pain is not on the skin, but somewhere in between the >skin and the bone at the fingertip. This is definitely not the >pain from worn-out skin. Those lack-of-callus pain is on the >surface. > >This has been going for over six months. I should go see a >doctor. But I get the feeling that all I will hear will be >"wait and see what happens" because there is no visible signs >of anything on the surface, and I doubt any exam can find >anything of this subtlety. Besides, I am not even sure what >kind of doctor will specialize on this type of injuries. > >Anyone advise that is above common sense is welcome. Please >send me your experience and the solutions that worked for you. > You may have what I have been diagnosed to have, a Plantar wart. These are more commonly found on the sole of the foot, but can occur on the fingers, or anywhere that persistent pressure is applied. What plantar warts are are regular warts that have been pushed under the skin by pressure of use. Warts are cuased by a virus, and are benign growths unassociated with moles, or skin cancer, so don't worry. You should probably go to a Dermatologist, who will be able to tell you for sure. Your symptoms seem to be identical to mine, except for it being on the first finger of my left hand, and also the lack of any visible lesion on your finger. You might be able to detect a tiny white spot where you get the sharp pain. These viruses are somewhat contagious, and I theorized I got mine from playing too many guitars in guitar stores :-) Now for the bad news. I remember getting plantar warts on my feet in High School, and they took a long time to get rid of. I put caustic stuff on the warts to try to burn them out, but it took a long time for them to go. This time, the dermatologist tried to freeze the wart on my finger with shots of liquid nitrogen (painful). Before he did it, he warned me that there is a significant percentage of cases where this would not work, and the wart does not get killed, in which case come back and get hurt again. Well, it didn't work, and I moved away, so I could not conveniently go back to him, so I have been treating myself with a proprietary salycilic acid product, that promises to get rid of the thing in twelve weeks. The advantage is that it doesn't incapacitate me from playing during the treatment, and it appears to be working. The pain is still there, but getting better. Anyone else get plantar warts? I feel your pain. Tony Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.music.makers.guitar Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip <> I had a similar problem once. It was a bone bruise...and it took damn near a year to resolve. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.music.makers.guitar Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip well I dont have any suggestions but I'll relate my current problem. One day at work I went through about 5 hours of streight marathon typing to get a job done in time. I usually don't type that much at work, so this was not something i was accustomed to. The next day my wrist was hurting...and it got worse over the next few days. I couldn't type with that hand, writing was very difficult, and playing was starting to become painful. After 3 weeks I saw a doctor (orthapedist) scared to death that I had some form of RMS. He said it was just fatigue and to cut down my typing/playing sessions into 20 minute intervals....my wrist is getting better (it cracks and pops all the time now...that can't be goood) but it doesnt hurt when i play any more. So the moral of the story: if you havn't tried already...instead of just sitting off the instrument, just go for 20 minute stints. Hope I was some kind of help Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.music.makers.guitar Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Date: 16 Oct 1995 04:35:19 GMT [description of problem] I have had various pains in my hands. I have gone to doctors about them, and they usually say the obvious. But I have a couple of suggestions: If it is a nerve kind of pain (tingly, electric shock kind of feeling), then I think you should stop playing until it goes away. Period. May take months. If, on the other hand, it is a bone-bruise kind of pain, then take up washing dishes in *really hot* water -- as hot as you can stand. Get the heat to really penetrate in the finger, especially. However, don't cook your hand :-) -- Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.music.makers.guitar Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.music.makers.guitar Date: 16 Oct 1995 15:32:50 GMT I have experienced the pain in the tip of my middle finger in my fretting hand too. The description of a piece of glass between the skin and bone is an accurate one. I found it was in a very specific point on the finger and didn't bother me when I played my 12 string because the string pairs now straddled the spot that hurt. I changed the position of where I pushed the strings to more on the pad of my sore finger than on the tip and continued to play my six string. After a month or so the pain has left and hopefully is gone for good (it's been about a year now). I am unable to isolate any event which may have contributed to the initial soreness. -- Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Ive had a similar experience. I was playing my flat-top very enthusiastically, and I fretted too hard with one of my fingers (I forget which one). I experienced, very immediately, a sharp pin-point pain in my finger tip below the surface. It felt like "a nerve." I had to lay off for a few weeks, and it went away. But it was disturbing. My advice is, always warm up slowly and carefully, and also be careful not to overexert your finger muscles. Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Date: 18 Oct 1995 13:13:03 -0400 I too have suffered from occasional sharp pain on the first and second fingertip. Was told by my doctor that I had "bruised " the bone tips (too much pressure). Sure enough, laying off works for me. After a week or so the pain goes away. Try switching to a twelve string for awhile. Can be much easier on the fingers, IMHO. Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Date: 19 Oct 1995 14:30:56 GMT : The dull pain is not on the skin, but somewhere in between the : skin and the bone at the fingertip. This is definitely not the : pain from worn-out skin. Those lack-of-callus pain is on the : surface. I know what you're feeling. I've had it a few times, and would usually just ignore it and continue playing. I noticed I'd feel this more often if I'd play over 6 hours a day. (Haven't done that in a few years!) I started taking lessons from an accomplished electric guitar player who quit electric and dedicated his life to classical. He taught me alot, including that I was playing much too hard. He taught me the "optimal" way of fretting notes. For me, it's _a hair_ behind the top of the fret. He made me spend HOURS fretting notes to the point where they'd buzz because I wasn't pressing hard enough. Highly precise and difficult. Then, I had to keep adding pressure until the note wasn't buzzing. At *that* point was where I have attempted to continue to play. It's an incredibly light but precise touch. After this whole exercise, not only have I improved, but I haven't had these pains in my fingers. Hope this helps! Best of luck! Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip >This is true! It is important! Most guitarists press down much harder than >necessary. Except for when you're digging in for those bends or really >slamming away with your picking hand, you don't need to press very hard at >all. Work on it to find the optimal level of pressure and learn to increase >that pressure only when you need to. >(I think classical guitarists know this) What I did years ago was to play "too light" intentionally , alternating with slightly more pressure to get good tone, and then finding that in-between zone. Once you can play in that middle zone, you don't have to worry about playing it (or the no-tone xzone) by accident, because it will only happen intentionally. Sort of like typing "the the the the teh teh teh teh", etc, to get rid of "teh" problem. Your realtime intonation will be much better too; if you play with just enough pressure, you will be more consistent in this way. Subject: Fingertip pain -- not the finger!? At a guitar festival I attended in Quebec a year or so ago, a string rep for La Bella strings was explaining the various differences in nylon string qualities etc. to me. One thing he asked me in order to make a point was " have you ever had that really sharp pain right on the fingertip after you've played?". I have as I think many have. He explained that this was a microscope shard of nylon which has gotten into the tip. It's due to *old* strings or cheaper nylon that is beginning to fray ( on a microscopic level ). If I do get that type of pain I just soak my fingertip in some warm water and hope it works itself out. It generally seems to work. Well, there's my rant. Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Date: 23 Oct 1995 21:31:06 -0400 I too have experienced a similar deep finger pain after playing the guitar with a new set of strings. A close examination with a high power magnifying glass revealed a tiny metal splinter imbedded deeply into the tip of the finger. It was too deep to get out with ordinary tweezers and it was just barely visible to the naked eye. It is my understanding that the plain steel strings are actually tin plated and I theorize that a very sliver or filing from this tin plating may worked it way into my finger tip after changing to new strings. Possibly a tiny metal filing was caught in the winding of one of the wound strings. The pain only lasted a day or two and the metal sliver eventually worked its way out. If the finger pain is very localized it may be from a foreign object rather than nerve or bone damange. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Fingertip Pain "Cure" I tried rest (three whole days - I'm an impatient sort 8-) ... but there was absolutely no improvement. Then I started alternating cold and heat. I used one of those blue gel packs that I always keep in the freezer (when you get to be my age you'll understand). I used that to ice down the tip of my finger for 5-10 minutes and then put my finger in a glass of hot water from the tap (be careful) for another 5 minutes or so. I did that three times consecutively for a session lasting a total of 35-40 minutes. I repeated that session two more times during the day. At the end of the day I noticed an improvement. At the end of the second day after three more sessions, there was just a hint of pain left. At the end of the third day's treatment the pain was gone and has not returned as of now. ********* Thanks for relating your story, and I'm glad you're recovered. But in the interest of "science," as it were, I feel compelled to point out that you don't know for sure that if you had simply waited the five full days without the hot and cold treatments, either with or without playing, whether or not the symptoms would have still gone away. What I am saying is, MOST cases of bruising or nerve pressure sorts of things will disappear on their own over time, especially without playing, but also even while continuing playing. This happens to me off and on. I think it would have gone away anyway. But then again, without a statistically valid clinical study, I can't say for sure that your treatment DIDN'T help either.... Just some thoughts.... Subject: Re: Persisting Deep Pain at Fingertip Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 00:12:49 -0400 > : The dull pain is not on the skin, but somewhere in between the > : skin and the bone at the fingertip. This is definitely not the > : pain from worn-out skin. Those lack-of-callus pain is on the > : surface. Dear James, If as has been mentioned previously this is due to a sub-cutaneous wart (I am presently working on getting rid of one), the following may be of some interest to you and others. There have been successful trials at treating warts using cimitedine (Tagamet) which is used for treating stomach ulcers among other things. If this works, it has the advantage of avoiding cutting, freezing, etc. which is likely to impair playing for some time until the wound heals. The usual dose is 400mg TID for 8 weeks. In the US, I believe this is available without a prescription. I will let the list know if this is effective in my case. Subject: (fwd) Index finger sensitivity Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:27:40 -0600 Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Index finger sensitivity Has anyone experienced pain on tip of their index finger? I'm wondering if this is somekind of nerve damage or what? I assume it is from pressing down on strings too hard. Is there any kind of therapy out their in cyberspace. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!!!! I'm talking about real pain not beginning playing pain. Thanx Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Index finger sensitivity >I just noticed it yesterday, began in the middle of piece I've been >working on, gradually got worse to the point where I had to stop playing >for I was getting sloppy trying to compensate. It only is sore when I >put pressure on it. > >A bone bruise? Any ideas on what the treatment should be? The only treatment is to knock off for a while, go do something else. You are probably just working too hard and this is nature's way of TELLING you to take a break. When I first started juggling I get bone bruises a lot. It would happen from the repeated clubbing my hands would take from the clubs, firetorches and battleaxes. There isn't a thing you can do, just quit for a while. I'd try modifying my catch, hiking up on the handles, whatever, and yet it would repeatedly smack the same sore spots. They hurt like hell. The reason my hands would get pounded so badly was because I was learning at the time and often my hands would come UP at the club rather than give with it. In other words, examine your technique. There could be nothing wrong with it because I can still get bone bruises from excessive juggling now, even though my technique is much more mature. I can even get the same thing you are describing on guitar, it just tells me to knock off for a while because I'm pushing too hard. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Index finger sensitivity >I just noticed it yesterday, began in the middle of piece I've been >working on, gradually got worse to the point where I had to stop playing >for I was getting sloppy trying to compensate. It only is sore when I >put pressure on it. > >A bone bruise? Any ideas on what the treatment should be? > >Thank you > The only treatment for a bone bruise is to avoid the area. (I guess, I'm no doctor) Just take it easy for awhile. Depending on how deep the bruise is, it may take up to a week or more to heal enough to play comfortably. If the pain doesn't subside dramatically after 2-3 days of NO playing, I'd get the doctor to check it out....ya just never know. ======================================== [new fingertip pain thread follows] Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Is this a Guitar Injury? Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 02:23:49 GMT My index/barre finger right at the first joint below the tip. I had built up a callous there but was experiencing a sharp pin-prick pain if that spot landing right on top of a string. I thought maybe 1. there's a wart there - although I had a lot of them on my hands 25 years ago, I've had none since. 2. There's a splinter, shard of glass embedded. I dug a hole down in there but results were inconclusive for either case. Is this something anyone else has experienced? Could it be a "use" injury, maybe a bone bruise since it's on the joint or aggravated tendon? Your help is appreciated. Thanks. Dan. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Is this a Guitar Injury? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:33:05 +0800 Feel the spot gently, if you can feel a small (very small ) lump on part of the joint bone it is an injury that I forget the name of, but I used to get them in the joint between the palm and the first finger in my tradesman days if I bumped that area. I wouldn't realise that I'd done it until the damned bump (lump) came up. If that's what it is it will go away if you avoid aggravating it, but it takes a while. Just a guess, but your description reminded me of the experience. Picker Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Is this a Guitar Injury? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:37:09 -0900 Welcome to the club Dan we arthritics comprise quite a large part of this newsgroup. Yes icing it sounds like a good plan as it is probably inflamed. I think that laying off playing for a short time helps too because of the repetitive stress nature of the it. Personally Advil works for me when I get an attack of the big A but let me state I am not a paid endorser of Advil nor am I a doctor. Good luck and keep movin. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic I'm sure I have some arthritis coming on, it runs in the family, and I experience that general soreness on occasion in my finger joints. But that is a dull ache kind of thing. This particular problem is a sharp pain very localized. It's a precise area that hurts when it holds down the string in just the right spot... still qualify? Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Is this a Guitar Injury? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:38:44 -0900 Arthritis is usually accompanied by Bursitis which is basically an inflammation of the spongy pads between the bones in a joint (very simplified ) This one can cause some quite sharp and acute pain. If I were you and if it didn't subside in a reasonable amount of time I would make an appointment to see a physician. I'll bet it is something we have talked about here caused by stress and repetitative motion. Heck we'll make you an honorary Arthritis club member even if it isn't any of the above. Anyway as James Caan once said having pain is the only way you can be sure your still alive. ;^) Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Is this a Guitar Injury? Date: 2 Nov 2001 02:05:50 -0800 I've had those from time to time. It's a sort of pressure bruise. It will go away, eventually, esp. if you stop playing for awhile. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Is this a Guitar Injury? Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 12:55:39 -0600 Dan, a "sharp pin-prick pain" sounds like you might just have some inflamed muscle tissue. The guitar can act like a meat tenderizer on your fingers. I had a similar sensation at the base of my left-middle finger that lasted over a year. I'm pretty sure it was caused by that part of my finger banging against the treble edge of the fretboard. Two weeks away from the guitar (went to Europe sans axe) healed it up just fine for me. What types of music are you playing? What particular chords trigger the pain? There may be some substitute chords that you can use to take the pressure off that spot on your finger. Also, I think it's somewhat unusual to have a guitar callous at that spot. I've been playing at least an hour a day for over a quarter-century and don't have a callous there. Do you have to clamp down hard to get the notes/chords to ring clearly? Your guitar might need an action adjustment or some lighter gauge strings. Or maybe you just need to try to relax your hand a bit. Best of luck, Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Pete, ...and others. Had the doctor take a look at it this morning. One explanation was much the same as yours, Pete. He said a callous can become infected or inflamed and sliding the callous up or down a string could do it.I recall now that's when it first occured, mabe a couple months ago. It very slowly got worse. Another explanation would be a cyst but he didn't think there was one there. The only remedy for that is removal. He suggested a donut corn pad to keep pressure off that spot when not playing. Hitting it only prolongs healing and with the donut pad direct pressure never reaches it. It's getting better and probably what has done it more than anything is simply rest. Now, the pain is triggered with any bar chord or bar-like chord that requires my index finger. There's very little avoiding it, except re-positioning my index finger, but by that time it's too late. I will definitely assess my technique, I find I play a lot of F# bar stuff and I'm working to strengthen my hands, but I do clamp down pretty hard I guess. I realize relaxation is key and I make a conscious effort to incorporate that - a lot of that just comes with practice I think. I've been playing a couple hours every night since Christmas and have significantly improved but fatigue with bar chords is still an issue, maybe the fatigue and callous are inter-related.