Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: my 2c. on the strength question Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:56:17 -0400 In reference to the discussion that started about strengthening the fourth finger... It is true that minimum pressure should be the ideal, even in bars, but bars are a special case due to the difficulties of placement of the first finger so that the mushy bits are not trying to stop a string that will have to sound a note in the bar. Correctly placing the first finger across the strings (barring six or less strings, or overbarring past the sixth, depending on the situation), as well as sometimes rotating the finger slightly to bring a flatter surface of the first finger in contact with a particular string, depends on which strings will have to sound from the bar itself. So placement is critical. Beginners often have to play through pieces very slowly, and if there are bars they end up having to hold them for a lot longer than they would if they were playing the piece up to tempo. This sometimes makes bars seem tortuous to a beginner. Those of you who teach are, I'm sure, familiar with teaching the Spanish Romance thingy to someone who has the technique to play the first part of the piece with all those open strings and then suddenly they have to deal with the B7 chord at the seventh fret that requires a six string bar. Those with larger hands and stronger hands will naturally find this easier even if they are raw beginners. Some with smaller and weaker hands may never be able to handle difficult bars. Size cannot be changed, but strength/weakness certainly can. In one respect, it is simply a matter of having a strong enough hand to mash the strings down enough for them to sound clearly, even if the other fingers are reaching for other bizarre note combinations. Nota bene: mashing strings must always be followed by releasing the pressure when it is no longer needed. Cumulative tension can be crippling. The longer you play, and the more you play each day, the stronger your hand becomes and bars become easier. Playing a new piece that has alot of bars in it compared with the pieces you have been playing recently will tire your hand out until it gets used to it. Bar-tiredness is felt in the fleshy part of the left hand thumb, for this is the muscle that does the mashing. So, minimize the pressure you're going to need by correct placement, then apply whatever pressure is necessary to get the notes out. If you're playing, your hand will get stronger. In the right hand, strength is about not having to play at your muscle's capacity. Consider this carefully: If your right hand can play twice as loud as you ever need to, it will never have to work at more than half its capacity in actual playing. This means feeling relaxed and in control. Its similar in the left hand: If your hand is strong in general, playing will not seem so arduous and you can relax and stay in control. Strength must always be clearly distinguished from unnecessary tension and cultivated without building up tension in either hand. A rock hard hand is not a strong hand, it is a tense one. My hands are very strong, but if you walk up to me while im playing and yank my left hand away, it comes away like it wasn't doing anything at all. Many, or most players have problems with left hand tension at some point in their playing careers. You just have to become aware of it (first and most important step) and then things will start to change. (make sure you keep breathing too, holding the breath while playing difficult passages causes catastrophic tension build-up!) As far as exercises away from the guitar: training muscle movements seems to be incredibly specific, so that if you exercise a slightly different motion it will not help the guitar playing motions. I remember several times painting my apartment or something and at the end of the day my right hand would be completely cramped up from holding a paintbrush all day. It felt like playing would be impossible, but it didn't even seem to affect it. The muscle combinations are different. I used to play piano alot at one time and my fingers would get sore and tired from pushing the keys (and pounding - the piano is great for pounding!), but when I'd go to play guitar they would be fine. So I think that the only way to practice guitar technique is on a guitar, even if its a travel guitar, or once a student sawed a piece of neck a few inches long and attached six strings across it so he could practice left hand stuff on the subway. I'm not sure if it really helped much though. Just play yer guitar, no gadgets necessary... Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: my 2c. on the strength question > Correctly placing the first finger across the > strings (barring six or less strings, or overbarring past the sixth, > depending on the situation), as well as sometimes rotating the finger > slightly to bring a flatter surface of the first finger in contact with a > particular string, depends on which strings will have to sound from the bar > itself. So placement is critical. Yes, and for everyone placement will be *slightly* different, because they have to accomodate the peculiarities of their own fingers. Everyone learning to do barres for the first time have to spend some time experimenting in order to find the placement that works for them. > In one respect, it is simply a matter of having a strong enough hand to > mash the strings down enough for them to sound clearly, even if the other > fingers are reaching for other bizarre note combinations. and: > Bar-tiredness is felt in the fleshy part > of the left hand thumb, for this is the muscle that does the mashing. I think the left thumb is only *part* of it. We all know that it is possible to hold a full barre without even touching the thumb to the back of the neck - some beginners can do this, too (In fact, it's possible to play entire pieces without touching the thumb to the back of the neck - try it!). You can use your arm muscles (bicep) to apply pressure to hold the barre, and also angle the neck back slightly from vertical and let the weight of your hand help to hold it in place. This, IMO, is a good way to *teach* the full barre, letting the student experience for themselves where the leverage can come from to hold a barre. NOW, you let them add the thumb to the back of the neck, and now they won't overwork or overtire their hand by trying to hold the barre solely by squeezing with the thumb and barre finger (index), and will have a much easier time with barres from then on. Getting a way from barres for a moment, have you ever noticed that when you remove the thumb from the back of the neck apply pressure with the arm, your left hand is more relaxed and you can make longer stretches? There's a good tip there: when you have trouble making a long stretch, ease up on the pressure of your thumb and use a little more arm muscle to hold the fingers against the strings (this, paradoxically, relaxes the hand and the fingers - it doesn't take much arm pressure). > Strength must always be clearly distinguished from unnecessary tension and > cultivated without building up tension in either hand. A rock hard hand is > not a strong hand, it is a tense one. My hands are very strong, but if you > walk up to me while im playing and yank my left hand away, it comes away > like it wasn't doing anything at all. Very good! I like this! Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: my 2c. on the strength question In order to play a bar without the thumb on the back of the neck it is necessary to push down with the right arm and hold the guitar in place so the pressure from the fingers does not pull the neck back. If the bicep is used to pull the hand then thats not going to help realistically. The thumb balances the pressure of the fingers and, in a bar situation, applies extra pressure to push all six strings down with the one finger. So the right arm holding the guitar in place can subsitute for the left hand thumb, but the biceps should not get involved IMO. I agree that playing exercises and whole pieces without the thumb on the neck is excellent practice. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: my 2c. on the strength question Some good points here. I didn't mean to discount the importance of the thumb. Not only does it help stabilize the hand, it also acts as a pivot point important for lh accuracy. True, doing a barre without the thumb is not exactly the way you'd actually play - it's an extreme demonstration of how the arm can aid in holding a barre, and you do have to exert quitea force with your right arm to compensate - so, your point is well taken. But, with the thumb in place, as in normal playing, you only need a small bit of pressure from the arm, and not necessarily a constant pressure (it helps to relieve the hand when you have to hold a full barre for long periods - on easier barres you won't need it as much). Under normal playing, I think the force needed to counterbalance the pull of the left arm with the right arm is minimal. If you also use the weight of the hand (gravity) to help hold the barre, then all 3 things used together (weight, thumb and arm), balanced with one another, make the barre easier to hold than relying primarily on the thumb alone. > I agree that playing exercises and whole pieces without the thumb on the > neck is excellent practice. Yes. I think this is better than strength exercises away from the guitar, IMO, because this way you exercise mostly "guitar muscles". Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: my 2c. on the strength question I just wanted to clarify that the right arm does NOT press on the guitar to balance the left thumb in normal playing, ONLY when the left thumb is off the neck. In normal playing there should be NO pressure of the right arm on the guitar, in fact you should be able to play easily with the arm not resting on the guitar at all but a couple of inches off of it. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: my 2c. on the strength question The *weight* of the right arm resting on the guitar is all the pressure I'm talking about.