Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Old dog learns new trick Here's something I discovered while practicing last night: if I tilt my guitar slightly forward, so that the plane of the fretboard is vertical to the ground, or slightly past vertical (just a few degrees, nothing drastic), it is easier on my left hand. My fingers feel freer and it takes less effort to play, especially for the little finger. It is much easier to play with a straight left wrist, too. I've always had a tendency to look at the fretboard when I play, and I have been inadvertently leaning the guitar *back* slightly from the vertical to get a better view. This rotates the fretboard back and away from my fingers so I have to reach just a little farther around the neck in order to play. I've been playing for nearly 30 years, but after this slight change I felt a very positive and immediate improvement in my left hand. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 05:58:41 -0800 Hmm... Scott Tennant in Pumping Nylon seems to advocate slight tilt backward so that back of guitar will not lie flat on yer stomach (which is of course very much stomach dependent) and thus it will sound better (guitar not stomach). Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:16:18 -0800 What about sound projection? Scott Tennant also says that by tilting the guitar slightly upward your sound will project further in a hall. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:11:28 GMT Segovia did advocate a vertical fingerboard in Bobri's "The Segovia Technique", but pictures in that same book taken from the side show Segovia holding the guitar with the fingerboard tilted back several degrees. I call that a dynamic paradox. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Tennant is no Segovia! If he really said this. What one may seem to advocate and what they really do may be two different things. I haven't seen too many folks sitting on the ceilings on my planet. Figure it out for yourself! If you sit in the standard (Segovia) position, to maintain a dynamic position one tilts that fret board every so slightly towards the front of you and LEANS a bit forward. You can use the left thigh to move the neck higher for long stretches, by squeezing it inward against the right leg. No one sees this unless they know to look for it. The reason the back of the guitar should not be against the stomach is to allow for those very ethereal high notes to develop. Stuff it right up next to you and you damp that back. Guitarist must learn to observe and think for themselves. I can't believe people are tilting the fret board towards them! If you do this there is just one hell of a lot you do not understand about ye oldie left hand! Let me ask this question. How does one execute the most powerful trill with 1 and 2 on the 1st. string while doing other things with 3 & 4? Simple answer, I just want to see how many people know? No response, no answer! Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Now, what is this supposed to mean in reality? First of all, if you make a slight tilt backward the sound will project in a "slightly" more UPWARD direction, not outward. In fact, if you want the sound to project staight outward (assuming it's coming straight out of the soundhole), you'd point the soundhole in that direction, which would mean .... hmmm, let me think .... (lightbulb goes on) .... hey, you'd hold the guitar in a vertical plane, not tilted slightly back! Seriously, though, tiliting the guitar a few degrees one way or the other isn't going to make much difference out front, unless you're in a recording studio. Why do you think the average concert guitarist can move and shift their position slightly during recitals and get away with it? None of them holds their guitar in exactly the same position or degree of tilt at all times; it's because sound comes from the soundhole and spreads out in all directions to the front of the instrument. There's nothing wrong with studying or quoting guitar manuals or authorities, but it helps to add some common sense to the interpretation. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:41:03 GMT > >Here's something I discovered while practicing last night: > >if I tilt my guitar slightly forward, so that the plane of > >the fretboard is vertical to the ground, or slightly past > >vertical (just a few degrees, nothing drastic), it is easier > >on my left hand. My fingers feel freer and it takes less effort > >to play, especially for the little finger. It is much easier > >to play with a straight left wrist, too. > > Everything is a compromise with holding the guitar. The more forward the upper > bout, the more awkward for the right hand. I only tilted it a couple of degrees, so it didn't affect my right hand. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick I would agree with the assertion that it matters very little in what direction the guitar faces, but that it is critical that you maintain as straight a wrist as possible. Your left hand must be as comfortable and relaxed as possible with fingers as nearly perpendicular to the strings as possible. A good guitar's tone is very permeating, and the higher tones are much more directional, so it is ideal to have the soundhold pointed directly at your audience for those, but I don't think it's that critical. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick >Here's something I discovered while practicing last night: >if I tilt my guitar slightly forward, so that the plane of >the fretboard is vertical to the ground, or slightly past >vertical (just a few degrees, nothing drastic), it is easier >on my left hand. My fingers feel freer and it takes less effort >to play, especially for the little finger. It is much easier >to play with a straight left wrist, too. Everything is a compromise with holding the guitar. The more forward the upper bout, the more awkward for the right hand. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick >>Here's something I discovered while practicing last night: >>if I tilt my guitar slightly forward, so that the plane of >>the fretboard is vertical to the ground, or slightly past >>vertical (just a few degrees, nothing drastic), it is easier >>on my left hand. My fingers feel freer and it takes less effort >>to play, especially for the little finger. It is much easier >>to play with a straight left wrist, too. > Everything is a compromise with holding the guitar. The more forward the upper > bout, the more awkward for the right hand. This is a good point for me to chime in, because I've been doing the opposite thing: tilting the neck back. But I also have the long axis of the neck angled up from horizontal at least 45 degrees. Why? Well, yes, it *is* making my left hand reach around the neck more than it would if I kept my fretboard completely vertical, but now I have the weight of my hand and arm to aid in fretting the strings, instead of having to take use pure "squeeze" power to fret. In fact, by using gravity in this way I often use very little thumb force at all, which has become a neccesity following a long go-round with DeQuervain's syndrome (tenosynovitis of the thumb tendon). In addition, I'm playing a big ol' dreadnaught, and tilting back gives my right arm a much needed break too. But this isn't perfect: as lutemann and most folks say, any position is a compromise between what's best for each arm and hand. I should also say that the position I use really only works well if I stand up and use a strap. I wouldn't mind getting one of those nifty wedge shaped guitars to facilitate all this, too. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Old dog learns new trick By it's nature a paradox is not static. Looking at pictures is very misleading. Segovia was also known for a certain misdirection with lesser mortals. When I played for him he praised my teacher, after an hour. When he was very old and tired, after his own concert. He made a few errors all overlooked, he didn't grin and he was giving that which he had of himself that he loved, sans illusions.