Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? The way you describe what you are trying to accomplish already - it isn't good. Marc, it is really hard to find a good teacher and I certainly don't know enough to say that your teacher isn't good, but you could be doing yourself some permanent and serious damage there. It sounds like your teacher is not all that aware of good left hand technique - if he was he wouldn't be having you doing that stuff. You should not be twisting your wrist around like that. What kind of music are you trying to learn? I used to study with a guy whose main passion was jazz, and he had me doing lots of painful excercises, too. I knew nothing of left hand technique. I have had to change alot of bad habits, since finding a teacher who knows about this stuff - 25 years worth of bad habits. You are starting out learning bad habits. I would really consider a new teacher. (Most of us go through a few before finding the right one). Your teacher is going to try to steer you back to those excercises...and just out of curiosity - how old is your teacher? I know lots of folks nearing 40 who just can't play anymore due to wrist injury. People believe that you should play through the pain. It isn't necessary... I hope I haven't offended you...but if you are experiencing this pain you need to change what you are doing. What does your teacher say about the pain? Does he offer helpful advice? I would recommend a video by Homespun called "You Are Your Instrument", and Aaron Shearer's Book 1 on the Classic Guitar put out by Mel Bay for info about good technique, but the best thing is to find a teacher who can see what you are doing wrong and steer you in the right direction... Passionate about this... Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? Hi, Donna. Thanks for the reply. I agree with you that this is a serious issue and also that my teacher is not sensitized to it. However, I like him otherwise as a teacher (he is my second -- you are right that you have to go through a few) and I've found he just has a terrific, very open attitude about things. In fact, he really encourages me to take the initiative in thinking about where I want to go with stuff. So I feel sure he will be eager to help out if I tell him about the problem (which I haven't yet, as this just showed up). But I doubt he has much knowledge about how to address this kind of issue. So it is a matter of my experimenting with what feels good for my hand and also maybe finding some resources on left hand technique. This may not be easy as I've noticed most textbooks don't discuss it that much. You mentioned the Homespun video and the first book of Mel Bay classical guitar. If anyone else has suggestions then I'd love to hear them. Thanks! Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? It sounds likje a mild tendonitis, but could be a mild bursitis instead. I think you are probably overdoing the practice before your hands have accustomed themselves to the unusual positions. It's a bit like going to the gym first time and trying out all the weights at the maximum you can manage. It feels like a real achievement until you wake up next day and can't move. I would suggest you play for no more than 20 minutes a day for a weeks or two. If your pain gets better then gradualy increase your playing time. If it gets no better or worse, then find a guitar teacher to have a look at your playing position. In terms of playing styles, there are no rights and wrongs in hand position. Some people use the classical position of thumb in the middle of the back of the neck, others wrap it round and fret the bottom strings with it. Both are fine, but if you get consistent pain when your hands are accustomed to the thing, then you need to change before you get a serious problem. If you find the pain getting worse and not going away with rest, see your doctor, who will be able to prescribe an anti-inflammatory drug to stop the inflammation before it becomes chronic. Even though the newer anti-inflammatory drugs have markedly less side effects, like gastric upset, they should never be used to let you play through pain and inflammation. If you don't allow tendonitis to heal, the long term consequences are not nice. And don't come moaning to me, because I'll only say I told you so :) By the way, the pain you describe is related to your guitar playing. It is in the wrong place for a computer/typing problem. Have fun Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? Glad to see you're still enjoying your guitar playing. The wrist thing could turn out to be serious if you don't get it checked out by a competent physician soon. I've had carpal tunnel syndrome (from bad computer keyboard habits), requiring surgery on both hands. Fortunately, after considerable application, it was covered by workers' compensation. I also have teno-sinuvitis (trigger finger) in the middle finger of both hands. Makes flipping the bird very painful. I'm taking anti-inflammatories now, and going to an acupuncturist/massage therapist weekly. In the meantime, make your practice sessions shorter if you can (more frequent is probably OK). And ice packs (20 minutes on/ 20 minutes off) for the pain & inflammation may help. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? What you describe is exactly what I have. I was told that it was carpal tunnel syndrome and I went to a chiropractor for a while for treatment. It helped but it surely didn't go away. People who have previously broken their wrist are most susceptible to getting CTS -- this happened to me years ago. And I think that that's why it's my left hand and not my right, which would make more sense, I think. You might want to plug Carpal Tunnel Syndrome into a search engine and see what articles it pulls up -- there are a number of wrist braces and things that you can investigate. But one piece of advice -- DON'T play through the pain. That only makes it worse in the long run. Play until you feel discomfort and then stop. Don't be dumb like me and keep going and fighting through it - - you don't gain anything by doing that except more pain. Good luck -- let us know how you do! Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? Various people have made good suggestions. I'd like to add that you should take a good look at your left-hand technique. Here's a good exercise to try for a few minutes a day: Using one of your left-hand fingers and one string, play a scale or mode up and down from open string to twelfth fret. Do NOT put your thumb on the back of the fingerboard. Put your finger in the correct fretting position, and don't move it. Apply pressure to the string ONLY with your biceps, i.e., by bending your arm at the elbow. Move your hand up and down the fingerboard only from the shoulder joint, that is, without rotating the forearm at the elbow. The angle your hand makes with the fingerboard should stay the same from the first to twelfth fret. Your shoulder shouldn't rise when you move toward the lower frets. Go however slow you need to for a "perfect" sound. Work with each string separately. Work with each finger separately. Watching yourself in a mirror is good. Don't do it until you're completely bored, just 10-15 minutes a day at most. Speed up the tempo only when your left arm stays almost completely relaxed, and you're completely comfortable with your tone and the connectedness of your notes -- remember, you're trying to keep the sound "perfect". If you keep doing this for a few weeks, I bet you'll learn new and useful things about your left hand and your guitar. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? > exercise to try for a few minutes a day: I tried this exercise this morning ... it is excellent. I can't >" Apply pressure to the string ONLY > with your biceps, i.e., by bending your arm at the elbow. (elbow is shot) so I have compensated by moving from the shoulder however I've also been doing exactly what you have suggested not to... >"Your shoulder shouldn't rise when you move toward the lower > frets. Definitly.... this feels better... I do feel as if I'm gaining better control ... sure is smooth ... Thanks for sharing ! Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? Do you elevate the neck of the guitar...angled upward from the body. You shouldn't have to twist your hand for a longer stretch. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Help -- left wrist pain? The other very common newbie error (at least for me) is to angle the guitar towards you -- so you can see the strings. This makes the "stretch" for fretting chords much worse and is tough on the wrist. The closer you can get the guitar to vertical, the less the stretch and the easier the playing.