Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:09:14 +1000 I find that dropping my left shoulder facilitates access to the upper positions -particularly for bar chords where it helps to keep the wrist straight. Is this regarded as bad technique and, if so, why? Jon Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? No... use the right arm to control the guitar's position.... see some examples at http://www.migman.com.au/aes/tech/LH1.htm Peter Inglis http://www.migman.com.au/aes >What about moving the guitar instead of your body? >> >How would you do this - By lifting the neck with your left hand? If so, >doesn't this restrict its freedom.? Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? If it works, do it. End of story. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? Do you think this is always true for any CG technique or are you saying it's true for this case? What about moving the guitar instead of your body? Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? > Uh, well, if that works to solve the current problem without causing some new problem, then maybe it's the thing to do. I guess we learn a particular set of techniques because they work well together. For example, it might help in one part of one piece to drop the neck down and wrap the LH thumb around to play some bass note. But it may [probably will] get us in real trouble in the next measure! In order to fit together, our techniques must be compromises to some extent. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? > How would you do this - By lifting the neck with your left hand? Sure. An also starting with the guitar more vertical. > If so, doesn't this restrict its freedom.? No. I've seen excellent players with the guitar almost vertical like a cello player and it does not restrict the hands at all. Dropping your left shoulder is what most players do. It works just find along with a few other adjustment to facilitate the upper positions. Go to concerts and watch the players who have the sound you want to see what they do. Pick what works for you and toss what doesn't. Be sure to keep an open mind about technique that you've tossed since sometimes you will discover later that you shouldn't have tossed it or that with a small modification it becomes useful for you. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? Larry, I think Jon's question was more should you *support* the guitar in this raised position *with the left hand* (as opposed to raising your footstool, for example). I agree that you can play with the neck almost vertical, but the left hand should be completely free from having to hold it up there. I know you agree with this, too. I thought that perhaps Jon might have been confused by your answer, because you guys seemed to be talking about 2 different things. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? I like this comment, but I thought that Jon was asking if there might be a danger in the technique of coming around the instrument and you just said that the only criteria was "If it works, do it. End of story." which I thought was a bit broad since we could apply that to just about any technical question. What "works" is the question. How can we tell if it really works? Does it work for all situations? Are there exceptions or caveats? Now you say that you understand that we compromise one tech for another to get that set that we like and these 2 statement seem to contradict. I really agree with you on this but I was trying to draw out a bit more detail from you. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? Dropping the left shoulder eases the left hand in certain situations, such as for long stretches or for playing beyond the 12th fret However, it's probably not a good idea to stay in that position for very long. I would stay in that posture only as long as necessary (generally only a few seconds), then I would quickly recover to a balanced upright posture. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? I agree. I don't see how leaning over for few seconds is going to hurt you. However there are seating positions that make this unnecessary. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? The facts present themselves in principles, not specifics. You should sit up straight and you can do so with a foot stand or some other device. Look at Aaron Shearer's "learning the Classic Guitar, Part 1" page 15. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? Oscar Ghiglia and some other good teachers do recommend bodily movement for reaching very high positions. I believe the body has to embrace the guitar and not be rigid - and the 2 move together - like two dancers... Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? I love this analogy - its very appropriate. Theatrics and choreography are needed ingredients to evoking a good sound! Another reason why Bream is the far better musican than "Old Stiffy" JW. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? They sure do don't they! Lots of ways to get around the guitar and stay lose. There are sometimes hidden movements that others don't notice, like moving the right thigh towards the left to elevate the head of the guitar up for certain difficult stretches. There are some who will always do things the hard way, they like it like that. It's so boring to watch statues play the guitar. Don't misunderstand me, I don't do this for effect, in fact I make a effort to hide these things so everything appears graceful and effortless, however much of it may have been a battle in it's making. Can you believe some classical guitarist can't dance? That's right...can't dance! I say, guilty feet ain't got no rhythm. A lot of guitarist would benifit from a few tap shoe lessons. It makes a world of difference when you can study something with your feet. Just tap out the phrase with your whole body. Static position people remind me of missionary position people, now who would admit to that. ;-) Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? Its pretty much a good case for knowing when to break the rules. The goal should be a good sound, and ease of playing. IMHO anything that acts as a barrier to this should be dealt with swiftly and effectively. I'd like to think people learned the art of plucked intruments before the existence of technical canons and rhetoric. Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar Subject: Re: Is lowering the left shoulder OK? If you have the guitar neck high enough, you don't have to lower the left shoulder. And, yes it is bad!