Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.piano Subject: Finger Muscles I would like to hear your comments on the following statements about finger action. In "Scales and Arpeggios for the Jazz Pianist" Graham Williams says: "Finger movements are basically controlled by two muscle systems. The first system (the Flexor- and Extensor- Digitorium system) is located in the upper part of the forearm near the elbow. These muscles are connected, through tendons, to the two finger joints and (via the lumbricals muscles) to the knuckle joint of each finger. One set (the flexors) passes underneath the wrist and hand palm to bend the fingers. Another set (the extensors) passes over the back of the wrist and hand to straighten the fingers. This muscle system is poorly suited for piano playing, as the tension in the tendons passing over and under the wrist obviously interferes with loose and relaxed wrist movements. A second muscle system (the palmar and dorsal interossei) is located within the hand palm and around the knuckles. These muscles control the lateral movement of each finger. But operating in pairs they can also flex the muscle joints. They are ideal for piano playing for they do not interfere with the wrists. Correct finger action is therefore from the knuckle joints." Williams goes on to describe a practice program which is intended to develop the correct muscles and a fluent technique. He says: "When practised correctly it will produce a physical sensation of tension in the muscles around the knuckles and between the knuckles and the first finger joint. This is a sign that the fingers are being strengthened." My teacher and I found that when we move our fingers as if playing we can see the tendons in our wrists flexing. Are we using the wrong muscles? What do you think? Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.piano Subject: Re: Finger Muscles >My teacher and I found that when we move our fingers as if playing >we can see the tendons in our wrists flexing. Are we using the wrong >muscles? What do you think? > My understanding is that all the main muscles for moving the fingers are in the forearm; nature designed animal hands and feet this way so that the muscles, which need heat, are protected and the fingers, which might need to be in cold water, can still function. The best example is ducks in water; their feet can paddle and function in icy water because the muscles are in the drumsticks protected by feather. The upper and lower tendons do not interfere if you learn to relax -- that's the whole point of relaxing. If the forearms muscles are relaxed, the wrist will collapse and you can't play the piano. Clearly, ALL the muscles in the arm and hands are used to play the piano, and the idea that the forearm muscles are less important than the ones in the hands is new to me. And difficult to believe. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.piano Subject: Re: Finger Muscles > My teacher and I found that when we move our fingers as if playing > we can see the tendons in our wrists flexing. Are we using the wrong > muscles? What do you think? This sounds suspect to me. First of all, the muscles he describes will not function at all when the hand is extended ((i.e. when the pianist is playing octaves, or arpeggios that create octave spans). Secondly, the thumb is very involved in piano playing, and these palm muscles ignore the thumb completely. Basically, however, and I say this all the time on this ng, playing the piano is not about strengthening muscles. We already have all the muscles in our fingers and forearms that we will ever need. Piano playing is about developing awareness and control of the muscles that we have, and awareness of the weight in our arms that we learn to transfer from note to note to note, with a minimum of muscular effort. The only thing that needs "strengthening" is the neural connection between our brains and our fingers. (Sadly, these connections take time - a lot of time - to develop). I am sorry to be so dogmatic, but a lifetime of injury-free playing of very difficult repertory gives me some authority to say this. Furthermore, we get a lot of questions on this ng from people who have injured themselves under the theory that they needed to work really hard to strengthen their fingers and hands, so that is additional evidence that that is not the best approach. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.piano Subject: Re: Finger Muscles The second bit sounds like a version of what Arnold Schultz discusses in The Riddle of the Pianist's Finger. But he did not suggest that that was the only useful piano touch, and the first part sounds offbeam. In fact, for other touches your wrists need to be firm, not loose and relaxed. Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.piano Subject: Re: Finger Muscles My piano teacher and I have discovered that my knuckle joints collapse when playing large chords, e.g. dim 7s, and my wrist seems to flex upwards instead of my knuckles. How can I alter this tendency? Any advice anyone??